Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

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kens
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Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by kens »

I plan to make a test sample board of various finishes (clears), all on the same grain, same species, same board, a test 'standard'
A board masked off in sections to side-by-side comparison clear epoxy vs varnish vs automotive clear vs whatever.
I'll be looking at counting coats applied and the 'depth' and warmth of the clears.
Some finish I do have is, epoxy, both clear and that 'warm amber color", varnish, auto urethane clear.
Only in very limited amount will I be blocking, polishing, buffing topcoats. This is to be a test of the paints itself and not a test of sanding fine grits, buffing, etc.

Something I do not have is the 2-part marine clears. If someone could bring (G15) a sample we could apply that (top UV coat) in comparison. I'll bring it to the G.
Thoughts ??
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

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Roberta
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by Roberta »

I will see if I have any Epifanes two part clear left for a sample size. At $80.00 a pint, it won't be much.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by Bill Edmundson »

Good idea Ken.

I think I brought a test panel of fiberglass vs Dynel to G13 for abrasion resistance. Dynel hands down! But, it goes down milky not clear.

Bill
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kens
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by kens »

Roberta wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:10 am
I will see if I have any Epifanes two part clear left for a sample size. At $80.00 a pint, it won't be much.

Roberta
this is the kind of stuff I want to test side by side.
the clear on DoubleEagle is 15 years old and holding up. (auto urethan over epoxy)
Varnish seems to be about 15:1 as far as thickness vs epoxy
Marine clear appears to be 7:1 in cost vs auto urethane
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

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Roberta
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by Roberta »

The Torpedo is clear coated on the decking with the Epifanes two part polyurethane over System Three Silver Tip applied over filler stain. Three coats Epifanes, one coat epoxy, one coat stain. All applied with a roller. Entering 7th season.

Hull is painted with Epifanes two part polyurethane in white and blue over System Three general purpose epoxy.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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kens
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by kens »

My feelings is that urethane over epoxy holds up well, better than varnish or anything else you can name.
I used auto clear, you used marine clear. Both are doing well.
Without getting into a technical rabbit hole, I believe there is no real tech difference auto urethanes and marine urethanes, the difference being thickeners added in marine paint to be able to brush it vs spraying in automotive. I think viscosity is the only difference. But I am not a chemist, and cannot prove that out.
Roberta, you say you put on 3 coats of clear (UV), but, you blocked out and buffed after that, correct?
When you block & buff you may have removed 1 or 1 1/2 coats, correct? you are left with 1 or 1 1/2 coats remaining of the buffed out clear?
I'm asking because I am doing a test sample, and looking at getting into raw spraying vs blocking/buffing.
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

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Roberta
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by Roberta »

IIRC I wet sanded the first two coats with 500. The third was wet sanded with 1000, 1500, 3000, and 5000 3m trizact pads with
6 inch RA air sander. Then compounded and polished with 3m Perfect It and foam pads with 8 inch Dewalt variable speed buffer.

Sanding was not aggressive. Just enough to knock off any nibs.

Roberta
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Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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Roberta
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by Roberta »

The Epifanes does have reducers and retarders for thinning and spraying. I used a brush thinner they have for rolling. I found that thinned coats that are applied thin flowed out well and leveled nicely. I thinned about 15%. Rollers need to be phenolic core foam rollers from RedTree and need to changed frequently because solvents in Epifanes eat rollers up. Hot dog rollers won't even last one or two passes. I got about 20 or 30 square feet out of the RedTree rollers, depending on how quickly I rolled.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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kens
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by kens »

Roberta wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:26 pm
The Epifanes does have reducers and retarders for thinning and spraying. I used a brush thinner they have for rolling. I found that thinned coats that are applied thin flowed out well and leveled nicely. I thinned about 15%. Rollers need to be phenolic core foam rollers from RedTree and need to changed frequently because solvents in Epifanes eat rollers up. Hot dog rollers won't even last one or two passes. I got about 20 or 30 square feet out of the RedTree rollers, depending on how quickly I rolled.

Roberta
Well, that brings up another school of thought.
I do spraying because I learned that in my teens-something age. Many will say that spraying is labor intensive, machines intensive, masking intensive, overspray intensive, and so on.
However, for the people that get a really good looking roll&tip, that is roller intensive, brush intensive, sanding intensive, thinner intensive, specialty intensive rollers, specialty brushes, and so on. and then you sanded into the thousands in sanding grit levels. and then polished.
So, which one is easier/faster, roll&tip or spraying?

Yeah, there is a difference between a Concours D'elegance, and a boat at the Gathering, but,
When you add it all up which way is easier?
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

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Roberta
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by Roberta »

Spraying is no doubt easier to get a really nice high gloss finish. I sprayed two airplanes with HVLP equipment and very large homemade spray booth. Building a dedicated area is not something easy or economical to do for a limited amount of use. There are always tradeoffs and considerations in how a person can handle any particular task.

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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kens
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by kens »

After doing 2 boats and a Jeep, I come to believe a 'spray booth' is over-rated. At least for a garden variety paint job.
And now, given the activated urethanes, you can work out any mistakes easily. flys, bugs, dirt, all that can easily be worked out when using urethanes.
yeah, it best to pick your day when you go to spray sans paint booth, but it can be done.
Even with a for-real paint booth, I always got the best paint jobs in the early morning before temps got up. Cool air & hot thinner was the way to go.
For back yard spraying, I do it in the morning when dew still on the ground. Dry air but damp ground.
If the dew is dried up, it's too late, wait another day.

Even a for-real paint booth brings its own problems, the air filters ain't right, the exhaust fan ain't right, the lights ain't right, spend half a day getting all that crap to run,,,,, then some dusty bonehead opens the damn door halfway through a job,,,,,"hey man, wanna break for lunch' ???
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

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Roberta
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by Roberta »

Ken, here is a link to the actual process I used on the Torpedo deck using Epiphanes Two Part PolyU.

https://www.glen-l.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... start=1560

My Memory wasn't totally accurate. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Roberta
Roberta "Queen of the Boat Builders"
Built Zip "Oliver IV", Super Spartan "Jimmy 70", and Torpedo "The Glen L".

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kens
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by kens »

My epoxy hardeners are slow/medium/fast temperatures usage.
Each one is a different color, that is how I get amber colored epoxy to emulate varnish.
Today is a scarf joint with fast hardener, and a amber part of the test sample piece
20210416_113335.jpg
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

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kens
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by kens »

I got some of that hazy, cloudiness that some have posted about. The first time I have seen that.
I had 3 coats of clear epoxy dried, sanded smooth to 240grit, applied a final coat with foam tipped.
the cloudiness showed up, and I have no reason why.
it is not sand scratches, looked at it with magnifiers, and see nothing.
a different piece I was working next to this did not cloud up.
Anybody got a clue?
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

hoodman
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Re: Test(s) sample(s) clears/UV/topcoats

Post by hoodman »

I'm thinking moisture or some other contaminant.
Matt

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