Building a La Paz 24

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Yeahyeah
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Building a La Paz 24

Post by Yeahyeah » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:47 pm

And so my adventure has begun, and I have so many questions!

I purchased the plans for the La Paz 22 (stretching it to 24') this past summer and must admit I was at first, overwhelmed. I've found though that if I read, study plans, read some more, repeat, I usually get it eventually. I've never built a boat. I've never even owned a boat, so the vocabulary alone is a challenge.I spent the last few weeks building the strongback (pictured below).

I've been researching lumber/plywood suppliers here in Southern California and found a few, but am a little perplexed as to my needs.The plans make mention of nominal/net (and I get the difference) and where they apply, but on a few occasions it gives options, such as this "The transom is made from 3/4" plywood framed on the inside with 1" stock of widths shown on the plans; 1 1/4" stock is optional". In this case, I'd assume that the 1" is a nominal dimension, so the "option" is to make the framing 1" net thickness? As I plan to take this out in the Pacific, I intend to go for the sturdier options where mentioned.

A second question arises as I look for a lumber supplier. If I'm to make frames 1" or 1 1/4" net, I will need to buy 2x6, 2x8, etc and plane down. One supplier has excellent stock, good 4 sides, but at a premium price. And I'll have to plane away about 50% of that stock (which pains me to no end). Another supplier has stock at half that price, rough sawn. This is far more attractive, but the plans call for 8" and 6" stock to be net in width, and the rough sawn will come up just short of that (so maybe 7 5/8-3/4", when finished). So I'm thinking if I make the frames thicker, 1" to 1 1/4", I can get away with widths that are just short of what the plans call for. Is that a fair compromise?
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steveh41
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by steveh41 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:39 pm

Not sure what type of wood you intend to use for frames but a good lumberyard with milling capability should be able to supply the dimensions you need milled from rough stock. Thicknesses are given on the plans as "nominal" so for less than 2" subtract 1/4", for 2" or greater subtract 1/2" to get the "net" dimension. The "scantlings" (structural dimensions for strength) take this variability into account and you will have appropriate strength with "net" dimensions. Widths on the other hand are given as "net" which shouldn't be an issue since rough stock comes in varying widths which may be 15" or greater if you're looking at mahogany. If you mill your own lumber it's helpful to order the rough stock with one edge ripped straight. For 1" nominal start with 4/4 stock; for 1-1/4" start with 6/4 material. The cost for milling is a small enough percentage of the total that you may want to ask yourself if you really want to do it for a project of this size.

Regards,

Steve
The longest journey begins with a single step… then repeat as necessary!

Yeahyeah
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by Yeahyeah » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:45 pm

thanks, Steve.

I'm looking at using vertical grain douglas fir. I'm told by the lumber yard that 4/4 or 5/4 aren't really options. The dimensions I was given were 2x6, 2x8, 2x10, so the typical dimensions for hardwoods such as mahogany don't apply.

Tahti
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by Tahti » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:04 pm

Hi there! I’m new here but I must comment here. Vertical grain (quartersawn) DF is a beautiful wood but carries no muster for your frames. The strength of wood is perpendicular to the growth ring so you will have beautiful frames that are strongest in a direction already carried by the sheathing. Plain sawn material viewed from the wide dimension will build a stronger frame.

Yeahyeah
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by Yeahyeah » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:34 pm

thanks, Tahti.

I've wondered this myself, what vertical grain has to offer other than the grain pattern. The plans state " for best performance, use lightweight strong woods such as Sitka spruce, vertical grain douglas fir, and mahogany". It would seem to me (an uneducated opinion), that clear, mixed grain douglas fir would serve fine. But being a novice, I've been seeking out the vertical grain.

Ralph

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steveh41
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by steveh41 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:13 pm

Check your local supplier but in our area vertical grain fir is at least 50% more expensive per bf than sapele or african mahogany. Sapele in particular is a good choice for structural applications (straight grain, not ribbon grain)... dense and very strong with tight grain, machines easily and epoxies well but you have to predrill for screws.

Steve
The longest journey begins with a single step… then repeat as necessary!

Tahti
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by Tahti » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:07 am

Hi Ralph,

There is also the possibility of confusion with the definition of vertical grain. Typically soft woods when quartersawn are referred to as “vertical grain”. This is often an aesthetic decision. The truth of the matter is plain sawing will result in a great deal of vertical grain material on the short (2”) dimension of typical DF structural lumber. I hope that makes sense. Also the notion of sapele for the frames is a good one. It’s readily available and quite reasonable, although a bit heavier than Douglas fir.

T

Yeahyeah
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by Yeahyeah » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:54 pm

Thanks, guys. I'll look into those options. I went to the lumber yard yesterday and met with their buyer. Nice guy. He showed me what the had (rough cut, VGDF) and understood my dilemma so he told me to send me my materials list. He said he knew of some other lumber yards in the area that might have 4/4 or 5/4 stock and he said he'd contact them for me.

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kens
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by kens » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:56 pm

the vertical grain, or, quarter sawn are very close.
But, there is more than good looks that go along with that.
The vertical grain will saw straighter, stay straighter, work better, bends more consistent, won't bind the saw blade, etc., etc.
Besides all that, it looks good too.
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

dpc480
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by dpc480 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:37 pm

Hey Yeahyeah, i'm glad to see someone else taking a crack at the LaPaz. I too plan to build this boat as soon as we complete construction with our house. Where in So Cal are you from? I live in Orange County and have sourced several sources for lumber within a 20 minutes drive and even more if i chose to hop on the freeway and head into to the Inland Empire. Good Luck on your build and keep the pictures coming.

Danny

Yeahyeah
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by Yeahyeah » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:38 pm

hi Danny,

I'm in Glendora, at the top of the 57 fwy. I'm waiting to hear back from Reel lumber in Anaheim. The buyer from Forest Plywood put me in touch w a guy there, he may be able to get me what I need. We'll see. I'm still going to shop around, though.

Ralph

dpc480
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by dpc480 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:42 am

Reel Lumber is going to be one of my go to's as well as Ganahl Lumber. There is another source i've been looking into out in San Bernardino for ply as well, they are off Baseline and the 215, can't remember the name, i just happened to drive by one day while at work.

Yeahyeah
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by Yeahyeah » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:30 pm

So I've spent the past month trying to find a better solution. After visiting one lumber yard I discovered they had Sapele in multiple dimensions, 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, and 8/4, all S2S, for about 70% the cost of rough-cut vertical grain douglas fir. I thought "awesome", but here's the catch. As my untrained eye was sorting through their stock I could see that there was a variety of grains. So when I inquired as to whether I could order straight grain (as recommended by Steve above) the reply was "We do not carry strictly straight grain sapele. Ours is a mix grain. Flat cut, straight and ribbon grain". So how important is the grain when working with Sapele?

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hoodman
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by hoodman » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:59 am

I don't think it's super critical with Sapele. The grain is highly interlocked so if you hand plane it the plane needs to be absolutely razor sharp to prevent tearout.

The sapele I bought I stored for over a year (not climate controlled) before I used most of it. It stayed nice and flat. I didn't use if for frames though. I know others have but don't know if they came across quarter sawn or not.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
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DrBryanJ
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Re: Building a La Paz 24

Post by DrBryanJ » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:07 am

My frames and stringers are made of sapele. The grain is all over the place. I have had no warping or bending in 6 yrs. It has also been nice to work with. Like Matt said, keep your planes sharp.
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

My wife said "If I build a boat, she's getting a divorce."

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