Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Outboard designs up to 14'

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JimmY
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by JimmY »

I'm not an expert on these motors, but when they say "displacement speed", think slow with lots of torque. So, my guess is that they are geared and propped for slower speeds and thrust (larger diameter and lower pitch). In a displacement hull you have to push the water that the hull displaces out of the way to move it forward, and there is a theoretical maximum speed for the hull. For a planning hull like the Squirt, you need a little thrust to get it on step and then speed to keep it there (smaller diameter and higher pitch).

Elco is targeting displacement hull types of boats and not planning hulls. You might be able to re-prop the motor for your use. I would reach out to the the guy who built the electric Bullet and see what kind of performance he is getting with the Torqueedo.

If you look at the Torqueedo website, on their 20hp model the max speed is only 14Knots/26.5kph/16.5mph. This kind of confirms what I wrote above, that these motors are still for trolling to cruising at slow speeds.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

My 100ah 48v battery should weigh around 100lbs. It seems all of these electric motors are advertised as "comparable HP". There are plenty of videos showing 10hp gas outboards pushing boats 20mph and yet I can't find any of the Elco 9.9 going over 10mph and just a couple of the Epropulsion and Torqeedo 10hp motors going up to about 14mph.
Try to find information video on the elco 9.9 and you get this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy1r07eQLlo


I'd like to see an independent company do a comparison test of 10hp gas and electric motors, maybe it's been done and I haven't found it yet.

xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

So I sent this email to the Elco guy....
"It is a planing type hull. I've been watching every video I can find on these and it seems like the performance of a 20hp gas motor is much higher than what is possible with the EP-20. It seems that with a gas 20hp, you can easily push a small boat 20+ mph and with the EP-20 around 10mph is about max. Am I missing something here? "

And his response three days later was......
"Good Morning
Nope you are correct with all outboard electric motors. Our efficient cruising is hull speed…"

You see what I mean about being very vague and slow to respond?

I replied back to him within minutes with this.....

"So is it not possible to get up on plane with the Elco 9.9 but it is with a gas powered 9.9 outboard? That seems strange to me."

And it been about 3 hours and I haven't heard back from him

xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

So, 2 more days with no response, I guess I'm totally giving up on Elco, it's too bad, they seem to be the only US based company for electric outboards. I just am not able to find any proof of the performance of their motors to be anywhere near comparable to the "comparable HP" gas motors. I could be wrong here- maybe they perform equally, but I'm not able to find videos showing it and I'm having trouble getting information from Elco themselves.
I still want to go electric, right now I am looking at the Torqeedo Cruise 4.0 (comparable to 8hp) and the Epropulsion Navy 6.0 (9.9hp equivalent). The Epropulsion is 79.4LBS and the Torqeedo is only about 40lbs. Both of these companies have the motor down in the water for a direct drive, the Elco has it up above just like a conventional outboard.

Here's the Torqeedo pushing a small boat to a claimed 24km/14.9mph...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Ondozr0FQ

Here's the Epropulsion pushing a small boat to a claimed 22.9km/14.2mph...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3ZsvpYbvgc

It seem strange, there are very few videos of people reviewing the Elco motors, I couldn't find a similar video of their 9.9

xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

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Almost ready for fiberglass!

xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

Are you guys using long or short shaft motors on the Squirts?

JimmY
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by JimmY »

It is designed for a short shaft, but you can easily modify the transom to be higher for a long shaft. My 1957 Johnson is kind of in between a short and long shaft. I ended up adding about 1 1/2" to the top of my transom but the cavitation plate is still below the bottom of the boat by an inch or so.

I think the Elcos are designed for "trolling" and will push a bigger boat slowly.

Looking at the two videos, I think the Torqueedo is your best bet if you want to get on plane in the Squirt. I think those inflatable boats have a lot more bottom area and don't draw as much water at rest as the Squirt will. This helps those inflatables get on plane and stay on plane with less power. I would suggest that you reach out to the guy who posted the Torqueedo video and see how big the boat is, how much the draft is, and how much it weighs. If they are able to get that boat up to 15mph, that should be enough to plane the Squirt and the torque and size of the prop should give you a good hole shot to get it moving and up on plane. You will need to keep it near WOT most of the time which will eat into your run time. When I'm driving my Squirt, I firewall it to get on plane, and then can back off a bit to cruise. If I have a passenger, it definitely takes more power and time to get on plane and a higher power setting to stay on plane, so weight plays a big part in performance. If I make a sharp turn, I need to add some power to maintain the plane. I should have mine back in the water in a month or so, and I can try to take some speed readings to see how slow it can go and stay on plane if you like.

The Squirt was originally designed for a 10hp motor back in the 1950's or 1960's, and those motors were were rated at "head power" and not for power to the propeller. With direct drive, they should be pretty efficient for getting power to the prop.

Finally, I would avoid adding weight to your Squirt. You should be able to keep the transom light and thin since that electric motor is not going to have the weight or vibration of a gas engine. Also, it will not have the shock of shifting into gear.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

Thanks for the info JimmY. I have found a dealer that sells both the Epropulsion and Torqeedo on Lake George, that’s only about 90 minutes from me. He seems very knowledgeable and actually gets right back to me and answers my questions!
I’m hoping to be able to get to fiberglassing the bottom this coming week, I had two guys lined up to help, one to help spread the epoxy and one to mix fresh batches of epoxy.
I’ve seen people mention that the waterline is shown on the prints, I’m not seeing it anywhere. Could someone point me int the right direction please?

Andrew-

JimmY
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by JimmY »

You are right, I don't see the water line anywhere on the plans. I just ran out to the garage and mine is 3" up the transom at the keel. Mine is painted red below this line and nothing showed above the water. I added a white boot strip above the red last year, and this is mostly visible above the water.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

Thanks JimmY, Seeing pictures of your boat was actually part of what inspired me to attempt to build a Squirt, it is stunning!
How did you come up with that spot on the transom and how did you determine share the paint stops on the front? It looks like some people have just followed the chime line.

JimmY
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Brighton, MI

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by JimmY »

Thanks, I think the water line was passed down to me from another Squirt builder, so now I pass the torch to you! :D

The easiest way to mark the water line is with a laser level. I didn't have one of those, so I cobbled together a stand that held a 36" pointer. I set the tip of the pointer to the height of the water line and just moved it around the boat, marked the hull at various spots, and then connected to dots. The long pointer is need to be able to reach the center of the hull at the stem. Make sure your building form is level, since the top of it is parallel to the water line.

Many people just follow the chine with the bottom paint to cover the row of screws holding the side sheeting in place. Especially if they're finishing the sides "bright" with a clear finish. If you are going full painted hull, then painting the water line accurately is an option. I veneered my hull with 1/42" Mahogany, so the screws were all covered.
-Jim
Nothing says poor craftsmanship like wrinkles in your duct tape!

hoodman
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Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by hoodman »

I suspect the issue with the elco motors is not the power but the rpm they are turning. Plenty of torque to move a boat slowly but not enough prop speed to get you on plane efficiently.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

Today's progress...
1. I committed to buying the Epropulsion Navy 6.0 short shaft remote motor. Should be able to pick it up in a couple weeks in Lake George.
2. I had been searching for a steering system and just found this on craig's list for $40 1 hour away from me. I think it was a very good buy based on what else I had been seeing. The steering wheel will probably get swapped for something with more style.



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xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

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Fiberglass day! Let's hope it goes well. I decided to do it in three pieces. The two sides/bottom halves with a slight overlap going down the center where it will need the most protection and a single piece for the transom.
Hopefully I have something to be proud to share in a few hours and not a bottle of whisky to drown out my sorrows!

xoo000oox
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:29 pm

Re: Electro Squirt build, East Nassau NY

Post by xoo000oox »

Success! After a very stressful couple of hours we got the fiberglass to all wet-out nicely and sit smoothly on the boat.

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