Where to start...

Outboard designs up to 14'

Moderator: ttownshaw

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upspirate

Re: Where to start...

Post by upspirate »

ttownshaw wrote:
By 'angle' I am assuming you mean the angle of the plywood as it moves from the transom to frame 1, right?
Yep, you got it. And no you are not screwed! You'll (like me) just get to spend a lot of extra time with sanding and planing to get it curved just right...kinda like time spent with a new girlfriend. :roll:

Don't fret, you're fine.
Do you have the Admiral's permission to say that???!!!LOL :wink: :roll: :lol: 8)

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ttownshaw
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Re: Where to start...

Post by ttownshaw »

She made me do it!
Bill

I told my wife we needed a three-car garage for my projects...she told me to ask her for permission next time before I buy a house.
http://www.unitybuild.net

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billy c
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Re: Where to start...

Post by billy c »

Iggy wrote:Arggg.
My love/hate relationship with my band saw goes on. After the blade change I was able to zip through the lumber cuts for the frames, but when it came to cut the plywood for the stem and even the thinner 3/4" (3/8"x2) gussets I had some real issues keeping the blade on-line.. or more accurately OFF the line. It just wanted to curve in or out and I had a real tough time trying to get it 'back' on the line if it got off even a little. I
Ian- a couple things you can do to check the tracking problem. First i would open the blade guides and back off the thrust bearing top and bottom. rotate the top wheel by hand and make sure the teeth are running on the center third of the tire. then retension your blade and turn machine on and let it run and then readjust if needed. often a new blade will settle in and need a second adjustment. next set one side of your blade guides 1/16" behind the gullet of the blade and adjust so they just contact the side of the blade surface. then take a piece of paper and place it between the blade and set your other guide block. do same for upper and lower blocks. you do not want much extra slop in the blade. bring your thrust bearing up to touch your blade then slightly back off. it should not rotate or contact the blade unless you are sawing. then set your table 90 degrees to your saw blade and reset pointer and table lock. Finally set your blade guide height to run about an inch above your work. This works for any wood bandsaw of any size. Again a quality blade is the most important thing to have (not a HD brand). mine will do the same as yours if i run a dull blade, the one that came with the saw, or have run into a nail or other wonderful thing while cutting.
-Billy
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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Iggy
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Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

Rookiee's

Sometimes you just need to shake your head at them.. even if 'them' is yourself as it turns out tonight.

I was happy to sneak a few hours tonight to epoxy my 4th frame tonight.. was happy drilling away some small holes for nails in the corners of the gusset frames... when I stopped.. paused.. and realized the the nail hole I was makine was SMACK DAB right where the chine was going to be later on.

See.. I opted to cut the chines later.. and I didn't mark their location on the gussets. So... out of all my 4 frames.. I didn't take notice till the very last one. Uggg...

Then, I took a good look at frame 4.. the bottom timber, and I somehow managed to pop the bottom screws right where the keel cutout is going to be! Sigh...

Also, while I was happily spreading a thin layer of epoxy on the gusset covers tonigh, I realized after that I coated the wrong side.. so I flipped them to the opposite side.. only to realize all the pre-drilled nail holes don't line up anymore. Seesh...

Good thing my frames will be burried under the hull and inside panelling.. because they are going to look like Swiss Cheese before I am done with them at this pace.

Nothing critical.. but dumb-arse Rookiee mistakes that make me reach for the Rum bottle.

Tomorrow, I will tackle the band saw again to make the angle cuts on the breastnooke and chine blocking... IF I am feeling brave enough after tonights mini-Fiasco!

Now I know why so many people built two boats... ;)
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

upspirate

Re: Where to start...

Post by upspirate »

On the second one,you get to learn to make new mistakes!! :wink: :lol:

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Where to start...

Post by Bill Edmundson »

The nice thing about bronze nails is... most saws will go right through them. :shock:

OOPS :!: :oops: How did I know that? :roll: :wink: :mrgreen:

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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billy c
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Re: Where to start...

Post by billy c »

if that's all you did wrong you are doing great! :D

....only a few more goofs to go and you will have your first boat!


-Billy
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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Iggy
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Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

Ok, I got the last frame, stem, chine block and breastnook frame components epoxied today.

I did manage to make a fair 41 degee cut on the chine blocking using the band saw.

I checked and rechecked the plans, and it did not show the breastnook sides cut at any angle.. for some reason my brain was telling me the shear sides of the breastnook was was angle cut like the chine block. But thats not how the plan shows it, and after mocking it up on the stem I am pretty sure I got it right.

I might tackle the transom tomorrow.. I put it off last because I am not quite sure how I am going to cut the bevel at the bottom. Right now I have it rough cut with plenty of extra at the bottom for the angle. I was going to screw the transom lumber frame with the transom plywood, cut it closer to shape on the sides and top, thencut the bottom on the band saw at a 15 degree angle. I would then remove the frame, cut the batten, chine, sheer and keel notches, then epoxy and screw the frame back onto the transom plywood.

The problem I have is the angle cut and my bandsaw table. My table tilts the wrong way for the side where the mark is to follow. So I am thinking of trying my Jig saw.. on a few test cuts first, to see if I can get it close.

Any tips would be appreciated.
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

Oyster
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Re: Where to start...

Post by Oyster »

I rarely mess with cutting angles on small parts with a bandsaw and certainly not with a jig saw on hardwoods that require angles.. Most blades do not like to do this without some wavy motions. I cut to the fat side of the angle and then scribe a line approx to the angle on the faces of the frames and then use my trusty angle grinder, four inche with 24 grit and alter the edge a bit. :wink: Works everytime its tried too.
For reference, I rough all my angles this way. :wink: On my scarfs its the tool of choice too. I then go back and clean them up with my palm sander.

Image

upspirate

Re: Where to start...

Post by upspirate »

Iggy wrote:Ok,

I checked and rechecked the plans, and it did not show the breastnook sides cut at any angle.. for some reason my brain was telling me the shear sides of the breastnook was was angle cut like the chine block. But thats not how the plan shows it, and after mocking it up on the stem I am pretty sure I got it right.



Any tips would be appreciated.

The breast hooks on my builds are at 90 degrees...you then fair the shears after they are sprung around, and they are at a triangle shape at the very bow.

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AaronStJ
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Re: Where to start...

Post by AaronStJ »

Like Oyster suggests, I did not cut bevels into my transom. I cut to the outside line and then beveled it down with my hand plane once the transom was in place. Not only was this easier, it ensured the angle was correct, since it followed the work in place rather than relying on me cutting the angle correctly in the first place (which, less face it, is not likely :D ).

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DaveLott
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Re: Where to start...

Post by DaveLott »

Absolutely. When setting up my transom that angle bothered me a lot so I left it long and faired it in place as well. I used a power plane and belt sander using the lines of my battens, sheer and chine as the guide for the final angle.

Are you cutting your notches as you go or precut before you assembled everything?
Dave

Riviera build - the Midnight Cry Project
Glen-L Sea Kayak
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Few things in the world measure up to the thrill and satisfaction of boating in a boat that you built.

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Dave Grason
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Re: Where to start...

Post by Dave Grason »

Oyster wrote:I rarely mess with cutting angles on small parts with a bandsaw and certainly not with a jig saw on hardwoods that require angles..

...I then go back and clean them up with my palm sander.
I love your posts, Mike. You can give us an entire book's worth of guidance in one photo and one paragraph. Please don't ever think that we aren't paying attention.

Oh, and BTW! Substituting the PL products for 5200 has worked GREATTTTTTTT! My sole supports are ROCK solid. Thanx.
Isn't it amazing!! The person that never has the fortitude to pursue his own dreams, will be the first to try and discourage you from pursuing yours.

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Iggy
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Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

I epoxied the transom lumber, knee plys and put the breastnook and chine blocking on the stem over the weekend. Everything is still setting up today, but the next step will be to get the building form constructed and start fitting the frames in place.

The framework process took longer than I imagined.. not terribly long mind you, but I certainly envisioned being a little further along. Still.. its a marathon, not a race for me, enjoying the process and working on my accuracy and wood working skills as I go along.

I got a few extra clamps from my boss as well today.. he knows I am building a boat and picked some up at a yard sale he attended on the weekend. Nice guy.. 6 clamps.. in good shape, will come in handy for the next step.

I will post some photos soon.
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

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Iggy
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Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

Update time!

This was what I saw out of my window this morning.. a good 4" of fresh snow overnight.

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Last week my step-father came out and gave me a hand making my building form. Good thing too.. because the night before I strained my left forearm and I couldn't even make a fist with my left hand... holding tools was a challenge and carrying sheets of plywood was not possible without his help. Thanks Jean-Rock!

As some of you know, due to the very dry conditions in Alberta I was very concerned about using studs for my building form lineals... over the winter and the dry heat I would be using in the garage heater they where bound to twist on me. So, I decided to build my own mini-lam beams using 3/4" exterior grade plywood. I cut 3pcs at 7" wide and 3pcs at 5" wide.. then I split one of each in half. Then I used scews to temporarily hold the 7" pieces together so I could notch a 7/8" x 2+" 'slot' to hold the frame.. then I glued, screwed, and nailed the 5" pieces to form the 'straight edge' that I would rest the frames on. I used a 6' level and clamps and bound them together. That was 2 weeks ago.

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(End Cut-off of the mini-lam I built)

Then with my step-father, we put the masonry bolts in the concrete floor and built the building form and lined up and leveled the mini-lam beams.. worked out really well... very level, strong, and those notches hold the frames really solid and verticle.

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Today, I centered Frames 1 through 4 on the forum, I started to brace frames 1 & 4 plumb... then switched to building up my transom and laminating my keel with plywood. My transom is going to be 2" thick... with 3/4" Mah + 1/2" DF + 3/4" Mah laminated to each other with epoxy. I used 2 cups of epoxy just to laminate the 3/8" ply to the keel and 1/2" DF to my 3/4" transom blocking.

I am almost out of epoxy... and I the local store has already shut down for 2 weeks. Its not cost-effective just to order 1 tin of epoxy from Glen-L with shipping.. so I am going to have to find an alternative supplier somehow if I want to work on the boat over the holidays.

Its great to see the frames layed out on the form.. you really get a good idea of the size. Its the perfect size.. for my garage and my family... only XXX months to go ;) !
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

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