Where to start...

Outboard designs up to 14'

Moderator: ttownshaw

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upspirate

Re: Where to start...

Post by upspirate »

Looks great....all except the snow! :wink:

You did fasten the frames to the form and not just have them sit in the notches didn't you?

They will move if you don't.

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Iggy
Posts: 1504
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta

Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

At the moment the frames are not fastened to the form other than at frames 1 & 4. I will brace them all together and to the form before I add the chine and sheer. They are 'stiff' in the notches.. but not that stiff ;)
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

upspirate

Re: Where to start...

Post by upspirate »

good,cause when you start fastening the chines, shears,keel,and battens,they will move

shaned
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:19 pm
Location: Edmonton AB Canada

Re: Where to start...

Post by shaned »

Iggy looks great i like your mini-lam beams good job! I see your looking for epoxy Lee valley sells west system, I am not sure how the prices compare.

shane

Blair
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:47 pm
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: Where to start...

Post by Blair »

Hi Iggy,
I noticed while reading this thread that you were having some trouble with your bandsaw. I have an older 16" 3 wheel Delta (machine from hell). I find that I have to SET THE GUIDE HEIGHT FIRST and THEN do all of the other adjustments that were mentioned previously. To get any accuracy/performance out of this machine, I have to reset the guide blocks and thrust bearings every time I raise or lower the upper guide assembly. I also find that I have to keep the upper guide assembly within 1/2" of the material to be cut. Hope this helps.

Great photos, it looks like you are doing very nice work. I like your mini beam idea for the building form and may copy that when I do my set up. I am building a zip and just need to finish the transom before I set up the form.

While I have never built a boat before, I have done a lot of woodwork of just about every description. One thing that I can tell you is that first time woodworkers tend to be very concientious because they haven't learned enough to be able to even think about cutting corners. Consequently, they end up producing some very nice work right out of the gate. They also beat themselves up about their work when actually the work is very close to top notch. (Either that or they are totally hopeless and should be shot.) Judging from your photos, you belong to the first category. Go slowly, be carefull and try to keep in mind how what you are doing will affect what comes after. You'll do fine.

If you have questions about tools, techniques, etc. PM me and I will try to answer whatever I can.

Regards,
Blair

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Iggy
Posts: 1504
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta

Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

Add 4 more clamps to my tool list ;) That was my 'standing order' for anyone who wanted to get me a Christmas gift. Clamps.

Nice ones.. quick grip.. a couple 24" and a couple small 8".. which I found where quite useful for holding the level against the frame while I braced them up.

For the past 3 days I've been working away at squaring up my frames and aligning my transom. The transom is now a solid 2" thick and is pretty darn heavy to adjust.. so I got a little help from my wife till I got the lower support 'ledge' in place at the right height. It took a bit of re-jigging the back of my building form.. and a few shims.. to not only get the right height (lined up with the keel plane from frames 3 backwards)... but also the right verticale angle (to the knee brace) as well as making sure the distance at the bottom (sheer) was the same on both sides to frame 1 for the horizontal angle.

I used a temporary spruce 'chine' between frames 4 and 1 to hold everyting rigidly in place at the proper distance and plumb level so it wil be the proper shape when I mount the chine and sheer lumber.

I also lined up my Stem and scew+epoxied it to frame 4 last night. Lining up that plumbob and chaulk line from frame 1 forward was a bit of a trick for the stem alignment.. I again recruited my wife to hold it as steady as she could while I marked the center line as best I could.

I am doing my best to fit within a 1/16" tolerance for everything.. and thats meant a lot of re-screwing and double checking dimensions. I actually found I was out 1/4" on Frame 3 from Frame 2 on one side... somehow my notches in my plywood form got mis-aligned.. so I re-cut the notch and braced it up with some extra lumber.

Next is my keel cut & fit.. I am really taking my time before I cut it to shape.. I don't want to do this part twice and I want it to line up exactly so I have less 'correcting' to do later on during fairing. A lot of temporary screws... clamping.. checking alignment... adjusting.. re-clamping & re-screwing.. re-checking.. rinse.. repeat.

Oh ya, I also got a 18 watt 2nd cordless drill from my wife.. love that lady.. making it faster to drill and screw without having to mess around with extension cords on my power drill.

I am working today, but booked the rest of the week off. I am hoping to have the keel in place tomorrow.. and scarf my chine together so I can start preping the frames for notches this weekend.

Won't be long before I start fairing.
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

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Iggy
Posts: 1504
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta

Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

It was a boat building marathon weekend. I've had a nasty cold virus the whole week.. so all the time I booked off from work was mostly spent sleeping in or helping around the house.

Yesterday I finally got sick and tired of being sick and tired and heated up the garage and prep'd the keel and cut both chines and sheer components in preparation for epoxy today. I had a $W@$%@ of a time lining up the 10" drill bit on the keel to stem bolt holes.. I had two holes that I swore where level tilt on me and poke out the side of the stem. I swore (a lot).. the 3rd time was the charm.

I also spent a whole lot of time prepping the knee and keel at the transom to get everything perfect. I used threaded rod and it was fine except for the nuts not wanting to feed onto the cut ends. About one hour was spent grinding/fidgeting with the rod ends.. but I finally got them to work.

Today, I epoxy and clamped the chines and sheer scarfed lineal joints. I also expoxied, bolted and screwed the keel and knee to the frames, stem and transom.

Then I swore again after re-checking my keel from frame 1 back to the transom. I had it nearly perfect before the epoxy/bolt-up of the knee... but after I had everthing tight I got a gap where the keel goes concave from the 1st frame to the transom.. the knee apparently is 'pulling' the keel downwards (or upwards if the hull was not inverted).. bowing it slightly. The funny thing is my level shows that the line of the keel is flush from frame 4 right back to the transom.. its just about a 12" spot right near the end.

There was nothing I could think to do about it.. next time I do this I need to find a better way to make the knee.. it was giving me problems no matter what I did. It was either a bad angle.. or uneven.. or crowned on the bearing sides.

I am thinking of 'floating' some thickend epoxy in the 'bowed' area of the keel and then sanding it back to shape to restore the line. Is that a good idea?

The next stem is to start fitting the Chine lineals... where I am sure there wil be plenty of opportunities to swear again. Still.. its exciting.. and I am moving forward despite the bitterly cold weather. Weekend marathons are hard my hands and back are killing me.. my eyes are full of sawdust (nose and ears also).

Hard on the Body but Good for the Soul :)
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

Blair
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:47 pm
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: Where to start...

Post by Blair »

Hi Iggy,
Reading about the dip in your keel, it occurs to me that you might be able to loosen up the transom from the building form enough to let the keel come back up if it didn't change the angle of the transom too much. Failing that, you might be better off to epoxy some more wood into the dip and plane/sand that rather than fighting with trying to "float" in thickened epoxy. Next time you have to cut threaded rod, put some nuts on prior to cutting. Then you can reshape the threads at the cut by simply running the nut off the cut end. It will save you a lot of grief. You're right about a little cursing being required for the chines. I put the chines on my Zip yesterday and it was a bit of an adventure. I put mine on in two pieces (lamination) which made the bend/twist much easier, but it would have been nice to have another set of hands and 50 more clamps. The clamp that I wanted was always about 2'' out of reach. It all worked out in the end and looks good today. I'm sure yours will too. Having another pair of hands to hold things, pass clamps, etc. will make things much simpler if you can arrange it.
Blair

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BayouBengal
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:29 am
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Re: Where to start...

Post by BayouBengal »

you might be better off to epoxy some more wood into the dip and plane/sand that
Do it this way.

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Iggy
Posts: 1504
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta

Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

I am going to try re-aligning the transom on the building form first. I know the knee was cut at the angle I wanted it to be at, so its probably just a slight mis-alignment between the knee and the form bracing I applied.

My 2" thick reinforced transom is pretty bloody heavy now.. so I will need to put up some temporary supports while I re-align my buidling form supports, but hopefully that will fix the issue so I can avoid 'filling' anything.
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

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Iggy
Posts: 1504
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta

Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

I was able to jury-rig a temporary support under the transom and used some nylon wratchet-straps to pull the twist out of the keel.. not quite all of it but enough that it barely even shows on the straight edge.

The sheers and chine scarfs turned out nice.

Next step.. holding up the chine and cutting the frame notches. I have a few nails from 'before' I realized I was putting them in the wrong spot.. but nothing I can't cut through ;)

I'll put some photo's up as I clamp down the chines... going to re-read the process in the Glen-L How To book.. and dig out some old beach towels in case I need them (probably will).
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

Blair
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:47 pm
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

Re: Where to start...

Post by Blair »

Hi Iggy,
Do your chines/sheers go on in laminations? If so, make sure you have LOTS of clamps on hand. I just did the chines on my Zip and had about 25 clamps per side for the second lamination. I would have used more if I would have had them. I cut up some 3" ABS plumbing pipe into 1 1/2" lengths and cut them for clamps. It's not great but it works. Some heavier wall pipe might have given more pressure. I still had to shoot in a few air staples which will be removed later. Good luck.
Blair

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Iggy
Posts: 1504
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta

Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

Last clamp count was 30.

I have quite a few of the quick-bar clamps now @ 16 ... so I going to get a bunch more of the small C-clamps for the sheer laminations.

Every time I pass by a hardware store.. it seems a few more clamps find their way into my garage.
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

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darthplywood
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:53 pm
Location: Erie, PA

Re: Where to start...

Post by darthplywood »

"Harbor Freight".....2 dollar C-Clamps BABY! (i wouldnt buy quick-grip or bar clamps there though)
Built the 17' Glen-L "Sea Knight"
yet to come...11' Glen-L "Utility"

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Iggy
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:00 pm
Location: Leduc (Edmonton), Alberta

Re: Where to start...

Post by Iggy »

35 clamps!

I worked on the chine notches this weekend, it was a nice +2oC for a change (34oF I think).. and bright with no cloud cover.

I had to deal with those brass nails I put right in line with where I was going to have to cut the notches.. but my metal-blade saw did the trick. I used a Japanese-styled pull saw for most.. and it cut really well.

I also found out which quick-clamps have the most grip.. that chine takes quite a bit of force to pull against the frames and the 'less-expensive' quick grip clamps couldn't pull it all the way in. Lucky for me I have some stronger ones that seem to do the trick.

I got all the notches done, cleaned them up a bit, and I have both chine logs clamped down in place but not cut yet. They bent quite well without threatening to break, so I am hopeful it will go smoothly. I am not going to screw the chine at frame 4 till I do the plywood.. just to be safe, but I will epoxy it into place.

My week schedule is filling up, looking like Thursday might be the night I heat up the garage to install the chines. Its a bit tough with only one set of hands (and eyes)... I might try to recruit some help for this part.
Ian (aka Iggy)
My Malahini Build

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