Heater

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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Onplane
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Heater

Post by Onplane » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:10 am

Having some issues with getting my interior epoxy encapsulation to cure.... See my thread in Epoxy section...

I'm currently heating the garage with propane, but I'm not comfortable with leaving it on while were not at home, so the garage is constantly going up and down in temperature. Plus the propane runs off a 20 lb. bottle and runs me about $16 - $20 to fill up each time (around 1 to 2 times a month).

So, open question here... Is there a particular model electric heater that has been proven to be effective in heating a 2-car garage, something I can leave on all the time, and relatively cheap (either in initial price or operating cost?)

Nova SS
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Re: Heater

Post by Nova SS » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:17 am

you can get, at least up here, 220v utility heaters that will heat easily around 400sq ft. You can get them for around 100 bucks.

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rbrandenstein
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Re: Heater

Post by rbrandenstein » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:26 am

I'm also working in my cold garage and worrying about the epoxy curing.
I bought a propane heater but returned it after it mentioned it produces carbon monoxide. I know my garage isn't airtight, but it worried me.

My thought was to build a tent over the boat with those blue tarps and place an electric heater or two under it. The heat would rise and be trapped in the tent, allowing the epoxy to cure. That way I would not have to heat the whole garage. Has anyone tried that.

Here's some other information on heating a garage.
http://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/epoxy_ ... ather.html
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Trilody
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Re: Heater

Post by Trilody » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:09 am

I've had great success with a couple of parabolic heaters. I didn't feel comfortable with propane, so I chose electric.

I can bring the temps up to between 60 - 80 F within a 6' circular area with just one parabolic heater.

As an example, a couple of nights ago the temps outside were 18 F. The area where my two parabolic heaters were projecting was a fillet job on the stern arc of the boat and the temps were consistently at 72 F. I measure the surface temps with a Black and Decker Temperature Reader. Meanwhile, the ambient temp in my workshop was at 48F.

In terms of energy consumption; at max power one heater will draw 500 W, compared to typical electric space heaters which draw 1,500 W. I use one of those too sometimes, when I want a more comfortable working environment, but it can't bring the temps even close to 70 F when the outside temps are sub-zero.

I bought my parabolic heaters at Costco for about $70 each, but I'm sure they have them elsewhere too.

If you take a look at a few pics in my thread "Tug Along 16" you'll spot the fan-looking heaters. You'll probably also see the space heater that I use occasionally.

So that's how I've solved the temp problems in my little Toronto-based workshop. Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Richard

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Re: Heater

Post by fergal butler » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:48 am

It's bloody cold in my garage too :D

Now where did I leave that engine. :lol:
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Nova SS
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Re: Heater

Post by Nova SS » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:53 am

you know I guess I'm a Dumba$$, no comments from the peanut gallery needed :wink: , but I never thought about Ireland getting snow. It only makes sense you would based on how far north you are but it never crossed my mind.

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Onplane
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Re: Heater

Post by Onplane » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:11 am

Ok, so I've been researching it a little more, and here's what I'm thinking...

I'm not sure there are any heaters that I would feel comfortable with leaving them on while I'm away or asleep... electric especially...

So in the end, for me, it seems the temperature in the shop is going to be constantly going up and down depending on when I'm working out there.

So, it comes down to being able to heat it up quick and then maintain that heat for as long as I'm in the shop.

So, I'm thinking about purchasing one of those propane (Not Kerosene) torpedo heaters from Tractor Supply or Lowes. One like this one:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/home-impro ... tu-1118050

From the comments, it heats up a 2 car garage in 10 to 12 minutes. Sure it's not vent-free, but the garage isn't exactly sealed either and from the reviews, it looks like multiple people use them in their garages to work on cars, etc... Plus after the garage is heated up, I can switch over to my radiant heater I've been using to maintain temperature in the shop. And, since it's not kerosene, I shouldn't have problems with contaminants in the epoxy right?

What does everyone think?

And, for $99, it's really not that expensive either...

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galamb
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Re: Heater

Post by galamb » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:22 am

Regardless of which brand of epoxy you are using you can take some advice from West System. On their website they have a pretty good technical write-up about working with epoxy in cold weather.

One of the things that stands out in my memory from when I read up (live in Eastern Ontario, Canada - so know all about the cold) :) was that you should NEVER use a portable fuel burning heater to heat your workspace. Burning propane or kerosene etc in a portable releases carbon into the work area. This can work it's way into your curing epoxy and cause problems (I didn't understand all the science they went on about, but the jist is that it's really bad for the epoxy).

I myself have tried to push my (outdoor) working season as long as possible and have found that using the fastest hardener possible (usually rated for use down to 40 degrees) will actually cure at temps as low as freezing, it just takes considerably longer. I wouldn't start the process below 40F but on a couple occasions when the temp dipped as the sun went down I found that 24 hours later the epoxy had set up without apparent issue. Since I did not have a case where it failed to cure, I don't know what the bottom end temperature is, but am confident that a combination of West 105 resin and 205 fast hardener will cure right down the freezing point of water.

Of course a heated space is good for a couple of reasons - it's more comfortable to work in, and your epoxy will cure faster - but if it's impractical, you can still work in a relatively cold environment and get good results by adjusting the hardener that you use...
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BruceDow
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Re: Heater

Post by BruceDow » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:37 am

"+1" on the infra-red parabolic heaters.... you aim them to heat the boat, versus heating the surrounding air. you only need to heat the part of the boat where you are epoxying.... not the whole garage.


I used this one...

Image

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 3465,44590

In addition to the CO concern, aren't there also moisture issues with propane heat that affect the epoxy cure?
Bruce.

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galamb
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Re: Heater

Post by galamb » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:41 am

I re-read the West literature and it's the production of hydrocarbons (not carbon - my memory failed, getting old :)) that can cause bonding issues. They can settle on the material you are trying to bond (kinda forming a film) that will prevent the epoxy from sticking properly...
Graham

Yes, Plywood is "real" wood :)

A "professional" is someone who gets paid for their work - it doesn't necessarily mean they are good at it :)

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vupilot
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Re: Heater

Post by vupilot » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:52 am

Agreed, I have also read of problems with kerosene heaters and epoxy cure problems from the oil that is put in the air. Thats why I only run them a very short time to take the chill off then run only the electric heaters to keep it warm. Then be sure surfaces are clean before using epoxy on them.

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Onplane
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Re: Heater

Post by Onplane » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:20 am

Well, that hydrocarbon thing blows...

The articles I read stated that the hydrocarbons were put off by non-vented variety propane heaters - like the tornado heater I was interested in... however, my radiant propane heater is vent-free, and I've been using it for a long time without any problems, so I think I'm okay there anyway...

Well, I guess I'll probably buy one of the celing mounted quartz electric heaters as suggested and see how it goes. Just seems counterproductive that you mount it on the celing seeing as how heat rises, and seeing as how it will be pretty far away from the source you are actually trying to heat, but I have also read that these parabolic heaters direct the heat to where it's focused (pointed) at.

Only problem now is getting the garage up to temp quickly, seeing as how I really only have time after work to get anything done on the boat.

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BruceDow
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Re: Heater

Post by BruceDow » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:40 am

I don't want to be too "science guy" here... but here goes.

The beauty of the radiant heaters is that they do not produce heat.

They produce infrared light... which only converts to heat when that light hits whatever it is aimed at.

That is why they don't heat the air.


This is probably not "regulation".... but I put a 2x3 across my garage door tracks, and have the heater on a bar with hooks. That way it is closer to the work, and I can move the heater around to aim it where I need it.
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Bruce.

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Onplane
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Re: Heater

Post by Onplane » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:15 pm

Bruce,

It may not be exactly regulation, but it sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe I can rig up something like that.

While we're on subject... what do people know about the oil filled - closed loop - radiant heaters. The electric ones that heat up the oil inside and radiate the heat out through the ribs. Would it be possible to set one of these up in an area where it wouldn't touch anything and let it run all the time?

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Heater

Post by Bill Edmundson » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:16 pm

what do people know about the oil filled - closed loop - radiant heaters
I've got one. They work pretty good. They don't get hot enough to start a fire. They have a 600w & a 900w switch. I've left mine on many times. You can also blow a small fan through them to help distribute the heat.

For the boat itself, you could put a tarp over it and put a small electric ceramic heat inside. I have one in the Tahoe right now down on the coast. It has been in the low twenties from time to time. My neighbor just plugs it in when he goes by.

Bill
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