16' Ski Boat Restoration

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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billy c
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by billy c » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:59 am

Safety is the most important part of this whole 2pk paint application. I don't know too many folks who have the proper equipment to extract the fumes or protect themselves from these automotive paints. This is why Interlux products are rolled and tipped and are recommended over the automotive line of paints.(or if you have had a few Perfection paint jobs under your belt and know how the product handles just roll)
You pay a little more for the Interlux product for the ease of roller application but better than killing yourself while spraying your boat.
Billy
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:32 pm

Thanks Ken and Billy!

When painting I am wearing an organic vapor respirator (with a clean shave), safety glasses, gloves and long sleeves and pants.

For future boats I may consider spraying automotive paint (the 2 part PPG paint worked great on my trailer). I'm going to give Perfection another try using roll and tip today.

I just read this in the Perfection Datasheet:

NOTE: Some of the lighter tints and whites can be rolled and not tipped off with a brush. By using this technique a very acceptable finish can be obtained which closely resembles a spray finish with a slight orange peel. Very large surface areas can be done quickly with very good results using this method. However, it will only work satisfactorily with light colors. The darker Perfection colors do not flow out as well and must be ‘tipped-off’ with a brush.

Wish me luck!
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Bill Edmundson » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:44 pm

Jim

When spraying two-parts you really should a positive pressure full mask, Tyvek, and gloves. The overspray is going to cure out. You really don't want that in your nose and lungs.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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kens
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by kens » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:32 pm

I sprayed Imron when Imron was brand new to the industry. It was the first polyurethane on the market. DuPont held the technology. Lot's of people couldnt figure out why it same 3quarts to the gallon, nor understand why it never dried. This was the beginning of a new era in paint technology, and a lot of old school painters. Imron was sold 3quarts to a gallon can because you needed a quart of activator to make the full gallon, ready to go. Believe it or not a lot of guys couldnt wrap their mind around that.
We would take a mixed portion of Imron and pour it in a coke bottle and wait overnite, then bust the bottle, you had a piece of paint shaped like inside of a coke bottle. We took a portion of Imron and sealed it in a mason jar, an put it in a freezer for couple weeks, then recover it, it would still be liquid, that is, until it warmed up for a day, then it cured. We played with the stuff all the time. And I'm still here to talk about it.
Then all the other paint makers got into the polyurethane action. Ditzler (PPG) was next for me. It was a 3-part paint. 1part paint/1part activator/1part thinner. A lot of shop managers couldn't wrap their mind around the 3-part theory, they would order 2 out of 3 parts then bitch because you couldn't do your job. This was THE most awesome paint I ever dealt with. That 3-part PPG would flow so well, flow out orange peel, wet-out dry spray, gloss so bright, dry so fast, and it would flow at the same time. But there is a certain smell to that stuff. I think it is taken off the market nowadays. All the good products eventually get taken off the market for some reason.
I guess it was isocyanates. I don't understand isocyanates, but I understand that all the good paints got them.
I'm still around, so I dont think it is quite as bad as some people digress, perhaps I'll die from paint exposure,
If I want a good paint for my boat, it will be a isocyanate product, and I'll wear a carbon type mask filter with it.
I never used a supplied air paint suit, but mostly used a carbon filter mask, and I'm still here.
It's not gonna kill you overnite as some suggest.
But I have come to realize that your carbon filter mask elements do in fact go stale just like potatoe chips. That is, once you open them from the bag, they go stale. 2 days max on a set of filters, even if you closed them up in a tupperware container.
So to close, I'll say, yes, you need a face mask for poly paint, but no, you don't need full face supplied air just to paint one little boat.
Oak is over rated, everything about it takes extra time; then it warps, splits or checks !!! :roll:

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:29 pm

Thanks for the info Bill and Ken

I didn't realize that the filters had such a short life
kens wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:32 pm
2 days max on a set of filters
I rolled tipped the first coat today and it looks better than the orange peel that I had but there are still some brush lines from tipping that didn't flow out all the way. I also need a few more coats because there is some primer showing through in spots

I used a 3" Corona Badger hair brush and 7" 1/8" Foam Rollers from Wooster T1Z

I used a wood pallete instead of a roller pan; I read that it provides a more even distribution of paint onto the roller.

I thinned by 15% for the transom and bottom of the hull and 25% for the sides. I didn't notice any appreciable difference in the reduction of brush marks with the additional reducer. It actually looks a little worse with 25% thinner with some "micro sags". Any tips to have less brush marks using the roll and tip method?

I have read in the datasheet
However, a maximum of 10% by volume of Brushing Reducer 2333N is about the correct amount of thinner to properly reduce Perfection for brush or roller application.
But have read 15% and more (to reduce orange peel) is acceptable in other literature

Looks like some more sanding is in order and more painting...
Attachments
brush Marks.jpg
Brush Marks (Roll and Tip)
orange peel.jpg
Orange Peel (sprayed)
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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billy c
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by billy c » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:39 pm

That is the right roller and a decent brush, so paint should go on nice and thin. I can't brush vertically to tip as I would never have a continuous wet edge to work back into so always work horizontally. Your tipping brush should always be very dry and not be able to spread or add paint. It is just touched lightly on the surface and takes the top bubbles and roller laps off the surface letting it level before it dries. It looks from the deep brush marks that maybe the brush was loaded with paint. Dry it off as you work or have a second and third one ready to go.
Nice thing is it is easy to level and prep for your next and perfect final coat.
Happy painting.
Billy
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Billy's Belle Isle website

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:50 pm

Thanks or the tips Billy, I was doing it all wrong!

billy c wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:39 pm
I can't brush vertically to tip as I would never have a continuous wet edge to work back into so always work horizontally.
How wet is a wet edge?

I bet I had too much paint on the brush for sure and I was tipping vertically.

Do you tip from tipped to un tipped or vice versa?
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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billy c
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by billy c » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:59 pm

Milhouse wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:50 pm
Thanks or the tips Billy, I was doing it all wrong!

billy c wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:39 pm
I can't brush vertically to tip as I would never have a continuous wet edge to work back into so always work horizontally.
How wet is a wet edge?

I bet I had too much paint on the brush for sure and I was tipping vertically.

Do you tip from tipped to un tipped or vice versa?
Well area size you can handle and still have a wet edge depends a lot on temperature and how much I thinned, but you must be able to roll back into the previous section and not have the roller stick or leave a stop start mark. I always brush from my new surface to the "old" but that old still has to have enough wet to not let my brush feel like it is dragging when I tip. You really have to plan so you can move along at a good pace. If. you feel the tipping is messing you up you can try just rolling. I rolled the Perfection green no tipping and it came out well.
(insert Witty phrase here)
Billy's Belle Isle website

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:44 pm

billy c wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:59 pm
If you feel the tipping is messing you up you can try just rolling. I rolled the Perfection green no tipping and it came out well.
I think the tipping is helping, I saw bubbles and olan orange peelish surface before tipping. I just need a cleaner brush.

I think I had a wet edge then because it was not sticky. I was moving along pretty good.

I assume I should sand the brush Marks off tomorrow with 320 or 400 and the water wash and tack cloth off the dust
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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billy c
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by billy c » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:49 pm

Milhouse wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:44 pm
I assume I should sand the brush Marks off tomorrow with 320 or 400 and the water wash and tack cloth off the dust
Correct
Hope this next coat is the keeper :D

...yes if you were seeing bubbles you will have to tip
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sscobra
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by sscobra » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:11 pm

Jim, yes I sanded between each coat. I waited at least a day between coats. I recommend a foam brush to tip it with because it has a sharp point on it, not a bunch of bristles to pick up the paint. Hold the bush vertical or nearly so to the surface you are tipping and tip it horizontally. I also had a rag handy to wipe the foam brush on to make sure it was dry. Make sure when you roll it on, that you make it as thin as possible. You don't want it thick enough to where it might run. It is surprising how little paint on the roller will go a long way. Of course, that means more coats are necessary when you apply it very thinly. It will not be like a perfect sprayed finish (if there is such a thing!). It will still have surface imperfections. You will have to decide what level of imperfection you are satisfied with. If you want it glass smooth, you can always wet sand and polish it, but that is a whole new matter. I did that with my clear coats and it is a lot of work, but the results where worth the labor. Skip
Built the Glen-L Monaco, 2016.

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:15 pm

Thanks Billy and Skip!

I see this post for tipping with a foam brush. I think ill try one more time with the badger hair brush because I only have cheepo HF foam brushes and I don' want them to disintegrate into the paint.

There were areas from yesterdays roll and tip session that turned out great (see pic) and others that had brush marks. I have sanded her down with dry 400 today with the Festool ETS EC 125/3. I was getting some balling of the paint because the paint was not 100% cured so I turned down the speed to the slowest setting and it fixed that issue.
Attachments
tipping example.jpg
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:15 pm

I just completed another coat. I think it looks worse than the last coat. Hopefully it levels out some more. Man this is harder than I thought!

I will need at least one more coat to cover some thin spots.

I think I am probably putting it on too thick still which causing the orange peel texture. Or maybe I need more thinner???

I mixed up 12oz of color, 6 oz of catalyst and 2.7oz (15%) of reducer a little way through I added another ~.8oz of reducer.

Just had a little bit left over at the end so at least I know how much paint to mix now.
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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Rich Coey
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Rich Coey » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:31 pm

I don’t know about this paint but with varnish I never had good luck with even the best brisseled brush. I now use Jen poly foam brushes,work great for me.

Rich

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Milhouse
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Re: 16' Ski Boat Restoration

Post by Milhouse » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:00 pm

Thanks for the tip Rich I just ordered some. The reviews seem to indicate the are pretty robust. I'll see how they perform vs the regular brushes.
Jim
16' Ski Boat Restoration
17' Overnighter Sloop

I'd rather have a $h!tty meal than an $h!tty resume because a totally awesome resume will feed me steak one day - Steve Poltz

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