Lee's Monaco utility build

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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denbrlr
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by denbrlr »

Thank you Neel. I plan to end up with an 80 grit finish prior to staining. Do you have issues with swirl marks using your RO? Or, does starting with 40 grit first and then lightly using 80 grit second with the RO work well to remove the swirl marks? Also, does the RO work okay with the concave parts of the hull?

Lee
YouTube channel: Boat Builder Lee
Monaco build YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP4Edb ... /playlists

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kens
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by kens »

you guys staining @ 80 grit?
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

neel thompson
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by neel thompson »

I use Interlux Filler Stain after sanding to 80 grit. I may go to 120 this time, but that's a long way down the road. The RO sander can really cause problems for you if you press to hard, even with 80 grit. I have a semi soft pad on my RO, so it sort of gets the concave areas, but nothing does it better than a flexible long board and a lot of huffing and puffing. Go cross grain with the board in all different directions. Then sand out the scratches with the RO, If you really want to do it without possible RO damage, use a half sheet vibrating sander with 80 grit. It will take longer, but no swirls.

denbrlr
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by denbrlr »

Thanks Neel.

kens,

Yes, only to 80 grit before stain per recommendations from Snake Mountain Boat Works. I also plan to use Jel'd stain from Lake Oswego Boat Company (also what Snake Mountain Boat Works recommends). They have good tips on what works and how to get a good finish. I have been watching their recent youtube videos about the 1941/1942 Chris Craft barrelback that they have been working on. I do plan to use Awlwood varnish which is different than what Snake Mountain Boat Works uses though.

Lee
YouTube channel: Boat Builder Lee
Monaco build YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP4Edb ... /playlists

denbrlr
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by denbrlr »

I started on the fourth and final bottom layer. I started with two large pieces on each side and they are attached. I mixed 32 ounces of Silvertip (slow hardener) epoxy for each piece. I used the same process as the other planking pieces where I encapsulate the boat and bottom side of the piece to be epoxied first. Then I thicken the remaining epoxy and apply it to the boat and use what little is left and apply a thin layer to the piece to be epoxied.

Thinking more about the prop shaft hole but I won't work on that until I finish the planking and the stem cap. I plan to make some sort of mockup to help me visualize drilling the prop shaft hole.

Lee
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YouTube channel: Boat Builder Lee
Monaco build YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP4Edb ... /playlists

denbrlr
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by denbrlr »

I have been looking at potential engine options and one option is a 5.3L from Marine Engine Depot but it is 355HP! I really don't need that much but it is getting harder to find engines these days. I then started thinking about my prop shaft which I plan on using a 1" shaft because that matches the strut (also getting harder to get) I was able to get with a 15.4 degree angle which is close to the 16 degrees I wanted. I plan to go with an 8 degree down angle transmission.

Is a 1" prop shaft large enough? If so, should I go with a 1:1 transmission to keep the torque a little lower on the shaft? If I go with this setup, what pitch and size prop should I get? I am way out of my league here. Help!?!?!?!? :) :shock:

Lee
YouTube channel: Boat Builder Lee
Monaco build YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP4Edb ... /playlists

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mrintense
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by mrintense »

Lee, watch this video. This was with me in the back seat of Skip's Monaco which if I recall had 460HP or it was a a 460CU inch engine. Can't remember which.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s9IiNh ... =CarlSmoot
Carl

Crafting a classically styled Vera Cruise

neel thompson
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by neel thompson »

Lee... I know we talked about motors, but here's the problem with 355 HP in a Monaco. It would be crazy fast at WOT and you most likely would never see top end. If you went with a 13" prop, you would have to have a lot of pitch in order to keep WOT at 5,000 or so RPM. With that much pitch in a light boat such as the Monaco, you would be making a wake at idle speed. My Gentry had 310 HP with a 13 X 15 prop and would do over 55 MPH at full throttle. Idle speed was a little high and sometimes required going to neutral to slow down. The Gentry is very similar to the Monaco in length and weight. So I recommend you stay at or below 300 HP. A one inch shaft would work fine and a 13 inch prop would be the prop of choice. With the down angle transmission and some amount of reduction, I'm not sure where you would start with pitch. Let's see what others say.... Take care,,,Neel

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kens
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by kens »

I'm with Neel pretty much.
I rode back seat in a Riviera with a big fuel-injected 350Chevy & down angle tranny. He was somewhere like 350hp, 1.2:1 gear and 1" shaft.
The back seat ride at WOT you could feel the back end (of the boat) getting loose as if it was looking for its centerline. This was getting north of 60mph.
With the 1.2:1 and 1" shaft he ran out of prop to hold the torque & HP. He already bought the largest prop for 1" shaft, and had it customized with cupping to hold the engine power. This is how he got north of 60, and the back end got light at that speed. It was uncomfortable as the boat felt like it was ready to trip up.
Here is my opinion on your setup, and it just a opinion.
If you really really just gotta have a down angle, the VelvetDrive Liberty is the only 1:1 that I know of, and they are expensive, and not popular on the production boats.
The ZF down angle is popular, less expensive, its good, but is not available in a 1:1.
If you go with big HP and the 1.2:1, then I would use 1 1/8" shaft.
If you want the 1.2:1 gear, and 1" shaft, then back off the HP.

If you still want the big HP, and the 1" shaft, then look into a VelvetDrive 72c 1:1, it not a down-angle, but, it is cheaper, bullet proof, and proven in 60 years of marine service.
The VelvetDrive 72c newer production is marked as 10-18 series.

I am still not convinced the down angle gets you a lower engine height. The down angle raises the rear of engine (bellhousing) just as a drop center tranny would. It is clear that the down angle makes the engine more level, but I not convinced it is lower.
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

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Rich Coey
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by Rich Coey »

In my Monaco I have a 300hp 350 Chevy, 1:1 VelvetDrive 1" shaft and an Acme 13 x 12.625 prop.
At WOT this prop holds my rpms at about 5000 and 55mph. If you go over 300hp Acme makes up to a 13 x 14 prop, with a 1:1 transmission that might keep your rpms down. Myself I would not be comfortable over 55mph.

Rich

denbrlr
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by denbrlr »

Thank you all for the comments. I don't necessarily want so much power and I certainly don't see the need to go anywhere near 60 mph. That would scare me to death :shock: :) My problem is that I do want a V8 for that sweet sound. I would be happy with a 5.0L engine but I want to buy new and I don't think you can even get a new marine 5.0L V8 anywhere.

Carl, I have watched that video several times in the past and your reaction cracks me up :)

kens, thank you for your thoughts about engine height. I am building a Monaco utility so I will have a motor box. I was thinking a down angle trans would help me keep the engine lower. I will look at this more because if that is not the case, then I definitely would consider a velvet drive.

I hope I can stay with a 1" shaft because I already got my strut from glen-L and it is designed for a 1" shaft. I suppose I could see if I could return it but then I would need to find a 16 degree (or close to 16) strut for a 1 1/8" shaft with a 7.5 inch drop. Those are getting hard to find.

Lee
YouTube channel: Boat Builder Lee
Monaco build YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP4Edb ... /playlists

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kens
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by kens »

Oh, OK, I just clicked on MichiganMotorz webpage, and your choice is 4cyl, V6, or V8.
The 5.0 is no longer listed; and all of them now are the Vortec, which is smallest 5.7L @315hp.
The Vortec is the roller cam, good breathing heads, etc. Smallest one is 315hp.
So, if you want a 'new' V8, and a 1" shaft, then I think your best choice is the old school VelvetDrive 1:1
And there is no flies on that package, none at all.

So, you end up with a new Vortec, 315/325hp, Velvet tranny, in a Monaco......what is there not to like about that ???
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

denbrlr
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by denbrlr »

kens,

Michigan Motorz is one of the two places I have been looking. I agree that motor/trans setup sounds good :) but I plan on a starboard helm which, I according to Glen-L's and Ken Hankinson's Inboard Motor Installations book, means I should have a CW rotating propeller. I was planning on getting a standard rotation engine which is CCW. Won't I now have an issue if I use a 1:1 Velvet drive because it turns the prop shaft the same direction of the engine which means it will turn CCW?

Lee
YouTube channel: Boat Builder Lee
Monaco build YouTube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP4Edb ... /playlists

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kens
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by kens »

I only mention Michiganmotorz because they got easy webpage presence. Everybody's marine engines are based on GM (chevy) motor blocks.
Crusader, PCM, all of them. basically the same. Back in the day so to speak there was Chrysler & Ford into the marine game, but no more.
All GM today.
As far as the helm port/starboard, I am not a big believer in that. I cannot prove it out, but not truly convinced.
Both those guys Witt & Hankinson drew their plans with a sharp pencil. I recognize that.
But at the same time they both say Oak is good wood, and, I frikkin hate Oak.

Both of them say put the helm on (that) side of the boat.
Does said boat with helm on the (wrong) side run with a list? I really doubt it.
The only boat I, myself, can think of that ran with a list was a yacht in the 40' class with twin screw reduction gears and both wheels turned the same.
That thing listed when they poured the power to it.

I have a 25' boat, with reduction gear, single screw, 16" dia wheel, and center helm, and R/H wheel. I have gone up as much as 17" dia 4-blade, and it does not list.
I can walk around the boat from side to side, and it does not list.
But it should, no?
Oak..........the juice ain't worth the squeeze :D :shock: :o :)

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Lee's Monaco utility build

Post by Bill Edmundson »

Lee

I think you have that backwards. If the helm is on the right/starboard it's clockwise. If it's on the left/port then CCW. Most gears can be set up either way. Some you just make a small change in the shifter. Some have small plate that you reverse.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
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