What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

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Wawa2c
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What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by Wawa2c » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:39 pm

Hello

How is this for a rookie mistake?

Building Flying Saucer. Fairing keel to chine. Working from frame 1 to frame 2. In taking down the side of the keel to match the chine, I found that the "skin line" (where the planking will follow the longitudinal frame) has dropped 3/4" below the frame. Did not have this problem on Frame 1.

Not sure what happened. Perhaps keel was set to deep, or chine set to low or just took off to much material

Rather disappointed and want to burn it all. However before getting out the s'more ingredients is there a fix?

For fixes I am contemplating....
- fairing the frame down or
- building back up the keel by planning it down and jointing another board

or a combination of the both?

Jonathan
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joshuab
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by joshuab » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:26 pm

Maybe I'm missing something but it looks pretty good to me, that particular area of the hull on my zip is not a straight line from Keel to Chine, rather it is a curve matching the shape of your frame, perhaps I'm not seeing the problem but again it looks great to me. What really helped me in this fairing process was a piece of quarter inch Marine ply about 36 in Long and five or six in wide, I use this as a flexible surface bending it over my frame members from Chine to sheer looking for gaps or high spots and fairing accordingly, when I started my zip build I was very meticulous, at one point measuring things with a Vernier caliper down to thousandths of an inch, I realized rather quickly that if you are within 1/16 or even 1/8 of an inch epoxy will take care of the rest. On my zip the transom and the next closest frame to it are pretty much a straight edge from keel to Chine however the next two frames moving ahead are no longer a straight line from Chine to keel they are a curve. Sorry for the long winded explanation but I believe you have worked yourself up for nothing, again looks great to me. Here is a link to my YouTube video talking about this particular part of my build, forgive the low-quality this video was made 5 years ago.

https://youtu.be/KDFEt4YHT98
I cut twice and it's still too short :mrgreen:

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DrBryanJ
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by DrBryanJ » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:53 am

Joshuab is right. That frame looks like it has a curve to it as will others as you move toward the stem. A straight edge from chine to keel will not work. You should use a piece of ply to follow the bends. It does appear you took too much of the outer edge of the keel and possibly the chine. I would epoxy a piece of wood onto the keel where too much is removed and re-fair it. Believe me, you are not the first to have to do this. nor will you be the last.
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

My wife said "If I build a boat, she's getting a divorce."
We're still happily married, but now she just wants "the dam boat out of the garage."

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chugalug
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by chugalug » Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:31 am

Installing your battons might help.I'm sure the bottom is curved-not flat.might have to kerf the front of the battons and wire them down to the build form(I had to do this on my Bo-Jest)Makes it easier to fit ply.maybe add to keel and after fairing,have enough to screw to :D
Working on regular-sized Bo-Jest


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hoodman
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by hoodman » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:46 am

It does look like you took a little bit too much off the keel but it can be fixed. Just epoxy a shim onto it and try again. But yeah, that frame definitely has a curve to it so you need to take that into account as the others have said.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
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chugalug
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by chugalug » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:26 am

The battons should sit a little taller than the frames.The ply gets screwed to them-not the frames
IMG_1183[1].JPG
Working on regular-sized Bo-Jest


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footer
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by footer » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:25 am

Never give up, especially this far along. I concur with everyone else. If you faired off too much, rip a strip, glue it on, and fair it off again. But look at your print; I don't know that boat, but I'd bet that frame is supposed to be like that. Or maybe I'm not understanding what your really referring to.

PeterG
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by PeterG » Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:03 pm

Not a problem, it's fixable. You got a little out of sequence, need to install the bottom battens and then do your fairing of the structure for the plywood. The battens give the hull bottom its shape between the frames. Install the bottom battens flush with the frame edges like the drawing shows, leaving them up a bit means you'll have to sand them down for the plywood to sit properly on the frame edges. Start your fairing over and use the strip of plywood like joshuab recommended to check your progress. You can epoxy strips of wood to those places you find had too much material removed and reshape them as needed. Like Chugalug said, the forward ends of the battens can be pulled down so you can use the plywood strip to check your fairing.
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Griffin's Law: Murphy was an optimist.

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chugalug
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by chugalug » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:53 pm

after review of my plans,I apologize for my mistake of leaving battons a little proud. do like Peter says.After kerfing front of battens,I drilled small hole in them and using small wire,pulled them toward build form.after flip glued and removed wires. :D
Working on regular-sized Bo-Jest


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vupilot
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by vupilot » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:21 pm

Doesnt look like any big deal. The outside edge of the keel is faired off too much/at the wrong angle to the top of the frame. Just need to add some material to the edge of the keel and fair it in. Gap doesnt look too big. Looks like you could get some 3/16 ply cut a strip and epoxy it on the keel and re-fair the keel. The frame might have a little dip in it closest to the keel also, hard to tell in picture if thats just from the limber or not. Real simple to add 1/8" of real thick epoxy or a small shim in that area too if needed.

When checking for fair. Lay your straight edge on the flat side over the frame from chine to the keel, thats the contour you want to follow. You want to keep that curve in the frame, not sure if that was part of your concern or if you were clear on that part. You dont want to follow the angle shown when you have it clamped straight from keel to chine like the picture. I imagine you knew that and just did that so we can see better in the picture but thought it worth mentioning.

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Wawa2c
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by Wawa2c » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:23 pm

Thanks everyone. I am feeling much better tonight after your comments and getting the shims down. Will restart fairing this weekend.

Jonathan
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PeterG
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by PeterG » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:42 am

Yup, you got this!
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Griffin's Law: Murphy was an optimist.

Wawa2c
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Resolved

Post by Wawa2c » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:03 pm

All,

shimmed away my day. I like the results. Now onto fairing the front. Once I get the hang of it one part...now the bevels are really radical. And this "transition point". You can read all about it, but till you do it....


Jonathan
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Sarnian
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Re: What the heck just happened aka did I just turn it all into kindling?

Post by Sarnian » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:38 pm

looking good...nice recovery

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