Mist Miss - Desert Build

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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hoodman
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by hoodman »

Wow those turned out nice. Good find.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

FL-John
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Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by FL-John »

You are about a month ahead of me. I've been debating having the stringers milled as well. The one gap in my shop is a jointer. I may go this way as well. They came out very nice!!!

denbrlr
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by denbrlr »

Andrew,

I suggest you ask your douglas fir supplier what the moisture content is. I was going to use fir for my Monaco stringers but I had trouble finding a local supplier. I did end up finding one but I didn't end up using the fir because I found out the moisture content was in the 20% range. That would be no good for a boat. I believe you want to be in the 7-8% range.

Glad you are back at it.

Lee

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acflynn
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

Thanks Matt, John, and Lee

@Lee, you make a good point about being cognizant of the moisture content. Fortunately I'm in Phoenix, so these things tend to dry out anyway. But the contact at Spellman Hardwoods said that this Douglas Fir was between 5-6% tops.

@FL-John, your sources may vary, but it turned out it was about $25 to have that milling done. For something as important as the motor stringers, as well as lengths that I had to rent a truck for, it was definitely worth it to have these professionally planed, joined and sanded. The Douglas Fir beams were $5.50 a board/foot themselves.

After admiring them for a few days, I took the plunge. Cutting the first notches are always a hold-your-breath moment, but then the rest of the frame notches progressed pretty simply. I do now realize that I'm locked into the hull length as per the design (at 18' 2", the Mist Miss (a lengthened Audeen) isn't intended to be stretched), but I did ponder adding 6-8 inches in the cockpit, using ALL of the space my garage will allow.

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Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

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acflynn
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

The July 4th Holiday weekend was fairly productive, and I transformed my workshop for the next portions of the build.

On Day One, I took down the "sanding tent" I had been using since I started in November.
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It had served me well for the assembly and finishing of the frames and components, but the boat is going to be longer than that garage stall, so it was time to move out. I tossed the 2 10x25 thick visqueen sheets, which had been torn and re-taped several times during construction.

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I was able to salvage most of the PVC piping that made up the skeleton of the tent(and threw them up in the rafters for future use).
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Wrestling with gorilla-taped plastic sheeting all around you in the 105-degree temperatures was GREAT! Can't you tell how happy I am to be out? At least I was "fighting in the shade" with my COVID beard.

I also went through all of the scrap (I hadn't really thrown anything away), and parted with a lot of plywood scraps, and some Sapele scraps that were just too small or thin to make bungs out of. Plenty of consolidation, organization of consumables, tools, etc.
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Day 2 was finally time to build the set-up rack for assembly. I went and picked up mostly 2x8 SPF for framing.
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I had studied lots of other builder's designs, went with something strong, yet able to put casters on for mobility in the shop (once everything has been leveled, squared, plumbed, trued and braced).
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I had been pondering this part in my head for months, but JUST STARTED ALREADY and it came together relatively quickly with only a few course corrections.
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With the casters, the build is only about 2" taller than the recommended 33" in height.
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On Day 3, which was only a half-day because of the heat (111 degrees yesterday) and family time, I couldn't resist mocking it all up. Forget the notches (though some were completed), no attaching, let's get a preview:

First the motor stringers:
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Then delicately balance the transom and lay the (open) frame 2 . . .
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What the heck, let's get them all on there!
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That's Transom through 6, how about the stem and frame 7?
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It's starting to look like it's vaguely boat-shaped! And that's a wrap on the weekend! More to follow (but it'll be 114 later this week, so I'll be trying to take it easy).
Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

denbrlr
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:06 am
Location: Peoria, IL

Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by denbrlr »

Looks good. It is showing a boat shape for sure :)

Lee

FL-John
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:19 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by FL-John »

Looks great! I can sympathize with working in the heat. It’s only 95 in Florida but the humidity is about 90%. After an hour in the shop I look like I took a shower with my clothes on!

hoodman
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by hoodman »

Wow look at all those frames. Nice.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

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acflynn
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Location: Chandler, AZ

Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

Quick update: I've completed making the blocking that attaches the frames to the motor stringers. I used some 8/4 Sapele stock and made 2 blocks per frame, and then used 4 silicon bronze carriage bolts per block to secure them (there goes almost all my Bolt Depot purchase). They are drilled and slightly tightened, because sanding and using the oscillating tool ended up vibrating the nuts and washers off.

The blocks themselves are a little proud of the frame, which is by design. I'll fair them down so they will be the same depth as the frames - seemingly a little more support, and then they'll be epoxied to the hull so no water will get between them and the ply. They are also all on the outside of the motor stringers, in case the engine, exhaust, etc interferes.

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But I'm wondering about shimming and support. As seen in the below photo, my combined frame+footer fills the width of the motor stringer notches, but for some frames, the footer (3/4 ply) rests correctly, but the 4/4 frame material does not fill the notch completely. While it's more than the minimum 3" (most are around 3-1/2" thick on the bottom), I followed the patterns but they didn't end up meeting the baseline. Should I try fitting small pieces to fill that area? Or does it not matter?

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Similarly, I've had to use some shims to make the frames fit tightly in the stringer notches. The one below is a rough example. When I epoxy and bolt these together, will there still be play? Should I epoxy these shims in as well (probably cutting off even with the stringer) to ensure a tight (and 90 degree) fit?

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(By the way, in the above photo, the 1/2" ply "footer" is merely additional support to keep the two-piece bottom frames together. I figured more strength and support. The actual 3/4" ply footer is on the backside of this frame)

Lastly, once I'm done with my keel (scarf-joining two 10' pieces to make 14'), I should be ready for assembly. Do I square, epoxy and tighten the frames to the motor stringers first, and then lay the keel after? Or do it all at the same time (frame by frame)?
Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

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acflynn
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

Hoping to hear an answer to my previous question (above). In the meantime, I had some adventures in scarfing the keel.

I had two pieces of 6/4 Sapele milled down to exactly 1-1/4" thickness x 4". I purchased what they had - two 10' lengths. The keel is to be 13'6", so I'm shooting for 14' of usable keel, with the notches for the stem.

I used several approaches, none of which I'm a fan of. I need to make a jig of some sort when I get to the battens. Marking out a 12" length, first I tried free-handing it with a hand saw (first a fine coping saw, then a gyokucho). That was uneven. Then I tried on the bandsaw, but that didn't go well either. Lastly I tried to recover from the bandsaw effort with a power planer, which helped, but the sides couldn't match. Lastly I tried sanding it down to the final bevel.

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First attempt - way off (that's not Poxy Grip, that's System 3 Silvertip with slow hardener to pre-soak the area - sanded most of that off again).

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Second try - closer

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Take three - time to sand it more

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Plenty of clamps and light weights, but not too firm - don't want to starve the joint.

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Completed for now. The scarf resides between frames 4 and 5 (above the pilot's seat), so at least it's not under the engine, transmission, or where the shaft will come through. Btw, those white scratches are encapsulation epoxy from the frames that has scraped against the lumber. Pretty much wipes right off. Earlier in this thread I had encapsulated the frames prior to assembly. Not sure I would have done that in retrospect, since with assembly, mounting, and adjustments, I'll probably have to go over each again.

Next step is to add the 1/4" plywood backing for extra cushioning(?) - better safe than sorry. Mentioned in the plans as having added benefit and protecting the keel.

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Dry-fitting the ply

And it had been so long since I had epoxied (and it was 108 degrees), that I forgot about the limited pot time, and narrowly avoided an meltdown accident with the mixing cup:
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Next step will be to carve out an additional 1/4" of each frame's keel notch to accommodate the extra thickness of the ply. I may reinforce over the scarf with thicker ply.
Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

denbrlr
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:06 am
Location: Peoria, IL

Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by denbrlr »

Your build is really coming along nicely. You might want to round off the edges and corners of the stringer clips. This might save a toe or foot in the future :) depending on how you build the floor in the boat later.

In regard to scarfing, I made jigs for my table saw and they worked great. You will most likely need to scarf your battens as well so coming up with a good solution will be important and will make your life a lot easier:) My Monaco build thread has some pictures. See this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35015&start=165 (hopefully this link works). Later in the build thread I show how I used the jigs for the battens as well.

If you want more details, message me and I can give you more information.

Lee

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acflynn
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

Thanks, Lee - good advice. While I may not round them off (they'll likely be below the sole and thus not exposed), it was a good reminder to make sure they don't project above the stringer! On the upright (hull side), I did remove them and taper them properly with my band saw. The idea of trying to fair these down later seemed ludicrous upon reflection. I'm aiming to reduce the amount of planing and sanding done during fairing ahead of time.

I ended up making curved chocks under the Sapele portion of the frame (while the plywood footer rests directly onto the stringer), and bonded them to the stringer. Now the entire frame is supported fully, even if each of those (for frames 1, 3, 4 and 5) added a day's worth of time to cure.

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unfinished Frame 5 stringer chock (but it's the best photo I have) - curved to support the arc of the frame member, while deeper notch to the left (aft) accommodates the plywood footer (Frames 5, 6, 7 face aft)

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Notches for Frame 6 at bow end of motor stringer. The 3/4" plywood footer is normal depth (1-1/2"), but the differing arcs of the frames on each necessitate custom-moulded support for each.

Making good progress in general. I tend to alternate sessions, Part A being bonding the blocking to the frames (and setting the carriage bolts for those) for 2-3 frames, and then Part B the next day being bonding the frames to the stringers.

As it stands, the transom and frames 1-5 are completed, fully bonded and bolted to the stringer, and I'm ready to do Frame 6 (the start of the stem section) and Frame 7 as soon as today.
Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

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acflynn
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

Looks like I may be able to lay the keel by the weekend with short 60-90 minute sessions each day. Since it's gotten more humid here in Arizona during our summer monsoon season, I have to try to be done by 10 AM before it gets too hot in the garage. Today I actually had a session with all the doors closed, as it was only 101 degrees in the garage, but was 118 outside.

I chuckle as I look back at my "plans" for completion, but I still think I can do the flip around New Year's. Assuming:

August - Sheer, Chines, and battens
September - Fairing
October - Plywood hull installation
November - epoxy and fiberglass hull
December - bottom paint, boot stripe, propshaft, strut, rudder
January 1 - Flip?

I know everyone's mileage varies, but does that seem reasonable? Or should I immediately assume more time for one particular task? I'm averaging around 25 hours per month, but that can pick up once it starts to cool off (late September). Thanks
Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

hoodman
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by hoodman »

My advice would be to not have a timeline. You'll only disappoint yourself. Enjoy the process. Make you goal to be to consistently work on the boat instead of giving each item a deadline. You'll have a boat soon enough.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

denbrlr
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:06 am
Location: Peoria, IL

Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by denbrlr »

I agree with Matt, I wouldn't try to keep to a timeline and enjoy the build. Things seem to always take much longer that expected. Is the Mist Miss built with cold molded planking? If so, it will be very challenging to complete the planking in one month. I know I am slow but I expect to take one the order of a year just to complete the cold molding on my Monaco. That is with three layers total on the side (including the final veneer layer) and four layers on the bottom.

Lee

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