Mist Miss - Desert Build

Designs for inboard or outboard power

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acflynn
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Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 2:10 pm
Location: Chandler, AZ

Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

Frames 1 and 2 are completed (for now - not encapsulating yet and not yet notching for battens) and I'm working on the transom. Which brings me to a question on battens:

Since I have to cut the notches for the battens on the floor timbers of the transom, should I consider doing one or two battens on the side? (They are not in the plans for the Mist Miss). I'm looking for a stronger craft - is there an advantage to doing so, or will that lead to weakness in the sides of the frames? Any other pros/cons?

Hoping to have the transom completed this weekend - in and around 3 youth soccer games and I heard there's a football game on Sunday.
Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by Bill Edmundson »

These boats a plenty strong!

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

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acflynn
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Location: Chandler, AZ

Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

A quick update after a productive weekend. Aside from encapsulation, I've completed the transom (still curing), and Frames 1 and 2. I tackled them in that order, as they are the three frames that are solid across the bottom. Frame 3-7 all have a two-piece bottom member joined with the plywood floor gusset.

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Carl suggested putting weights on while curing - I don't think it can hurt!

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Frame 1 - There's some ground-in sawdust from filling holes used screwing the frame to the layout board I need to remove prior to encapsulation.

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I had to break out both the textbook and the instructions to determine that the keel and battens don't go through the second bottom member on this design.

I'm pretty pleased with the following:
  • The Japanese Gyokucho flush-cutting pull saw was great at cutting out the keel, chine, and batten notches, with the oscillating multi-tool finishing off the backside of each batten cut.
  • Famowood. The mahogany color works in tight into the Sapele. I followed some earlier advice on moving quickly and keeping the lid on as it dries out rapidly (I think that was from Dave Grason way back in the day). I'm using maple-colored Famowood for the Douglas Fir plywood, and that usually takes two passes to be completely filled.
  • The cheap-o countersinking set I got on Amazon - $8 for 8 bits, and the results are great. Not sure if it'll last over the course of the entire build, but at that price it's still a deal.
  • The 1/4" forstner bit to countersink the nail heads on the gussets. Very satisfied with that approach - thanks to Neel Thompson for that advice.
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First pre-drill (upper left - the circle is from the chuck, which is also my depth gauge), then countersink (lower right).

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You can see that the Silicon-Bronze screw heads show a little warpage from the Frearson driver, but are sunk really well.

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All praise Famowood! I'll be using this on frames and internal construction, will try out bungs on exposed areas

Things that aren't so great:
  • Silicon Bronze screws. I've learned already that if the threads slip while screwing in (I use an impact driver) even slightly, I've got to back it out immediately and toss it in the waste pile. It's just not worth the risk. My process is to pre-drill, and then countersink if it's in mahogany, but I attempted a few pre-drills with a stainless screw ahead of time (to set the thread). That was a bit too much, as I had two stainless screw heads get stripped, and then it's a whole process to get the non-silicon bronze pieces out of the frame. So now I exert seemingly far too much downward pressure while driving the screws, but it's been successful. Out of the last 60 or so driven, only 6 have slipped. And they may have been fine, but I didn't want to risk stripping the head before it was down all the way, and then potentially not being able to get it back out again. It's working so far, however, and will be worth it long-term as I become more skilled
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Two out of sixty ended up with stripped heads

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Fortunately they're also soft enough to use the oscillating multi-tool and shear them off flush
  • Warming up the Poxy-Grip. I've migrated the resin and hardener into 32oz pump bottles (I think they were meant for shampoo). However, even at 72 degrees indoor temperature, it's very sluggish. So I've been setting them on our outside wall in the sun for 15 minutes, where they also pick up the radiant heat from the stucco siding. Seems to work. Today was cloudy (we have a freeze warning tonight - yes, in Phoenix!), so I went to Option B: Fill the sink with hot water and let the bottles soak and warm up for 10 minutes or so. Once pumped, the mixing and application is fine.
So a question: What's the best approach to removing the ground-in sawdust in the mahogany post-sanding? You can see some in the photos above. I'm guessing that shouldn't be in there before encapsulation. Traditionally I've heard cheese-cloth, and also heard rubbing alcohol. Ideas?
Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

neel thompson
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by neel thompson »

We have all had the same problem with the silicone bronze screw heads stripping out. I have sort of learned how to deal with the problem somewhat, but I am going to order and try a Frearson driver bit that Glen-L sells. It is supposed to be the bit of choice for these screws. Maybe others who have used this will chime in here... Neel

TomB
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by TomB »

Dust and resin removal - Wood resin is released while working the wood and can interfere with the epoxy bond. I vacuum thoroughly and then wipe everything down with alcohol. The alcohol dissolves the resin and maybe just spreads it around but I see color on the rag so something is getting picked up.

Stripped screw heads - get some steel screws for the prep and only put the SB screws in once at the end. Get bits that match the head size and shape and then give the driver a tap to be sure it is seated. Switch to square drive, they don't strip out...the screw head twists off instead. :oops: For big screws, stick with the Frearson heads.

Tom
In the home stretch on a Tahoe 23

footer
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by footer »

I’m no pro, I’ve only built one Malahini, but here’s my take.
I used Phillips bits most of my build. I think they are more forgiving if your not straight on. I also used steel screws where I may need to fit and refit, then finish up with Silicon Bronze.
You choose how much time you spend on cosmetics for things you will never see again (not one of my frames show, so only I know how Purdy they aren’t).
I’ve found hi pressure air works best for getting sawdust out of grooves and grain. You can also vacuum. The nice thing is, what may be left, finishes the same color as the wood you sanded it off from.
Don’t try to overbuild it. These boats were designed by a marine engineer with over 50 years of proven success. Making it rigid where it’s supposed to flex, may be its demise.
Happy building. 😀

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Jimbob
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by Jimbob »

Re: silicon bronze stripped heads.
Get a fearson driver like Neal said. Drive a drywall screw first, remove, and then drive the silicon bronze screw. Drywall screws don't strip. When driving the silicon bronze screw, make sure you are squarely on the screw and use lots of downward force on the driver.
Jim
Jim Neeley
Building a Barrelback in Sacramento, CA
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28089#p172969

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Bill Edmundson
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by Bill Edmundson »

Get a toilet bowl wax gasket. Use it to lubricate the screws. You can put the days worth of screws in it at one time.

Bill
Mini -Tug, KH Tahoe 19 & Bartender 24 - There can be no miracle recoveries without first screwing up.
Tahoe 19 Build

mickfly
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by mickfly »

In my view, Bill is on the money. I have a graveyard of stripped screws, despite having a frearson bit for my driver...and driving the majority of screws in my build, by hand!

About a month ago, I bought a little block of beeswax. I use a work glove or a scrap of wood to roll the threads across the wax...and can now use my driver with confidence...provided I go slooooow until the screw head is below the top of the counter sink. I still occasionally strip one, especially when I'm not careful to get the driver bit straight, but the wax has been a life...er, screw saver.

Toilet ring is bigger and cheaper!

I've seen some folks melt beeswax or beeswax and mineral oil combo...and dip the screws, but that may be overkill.

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DrBryanJ
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by DrBryanJ »

Wax definitely helps with driving screws. Toilet ring is a good answer. I use bees wax, but only because my hives provide it for free :lol: :lol: A Frearson bit is a must if you have frearson head screws.
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

My wife said "If I build a boat, she's getting a divorce."
We're still happily married, but now she just wants "the dam boat out of the garage."

denbrlr
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by denbrlr »

I use this countersinking but for drilling the countersink and pilot hole at the same time. I haven't had too much trouble as long as an adequate pilot hold is drilled. This uses an 1/8 inch pilot hole. This works well for #8 (1.25 inch and 1.5 inch) and #10 (2 inch) screws. The #10 2 inch screws need a deeper pilot hole than my countersinking bit will drill so I drill this with another 1/8 inch drill bit after using my countersinking bit. I also drill the hole a little larger (equal to the screw shank diameter) than 1/8 inch on the piece that is being attached (i.e. the piece with the countersink hole).

Lee
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denbrlr
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by denbrlr »

I forgot to mention, I also use a Frearson bit.

Lee

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acflynn
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

@neel thompson: I also use the Frearson bit that came with the Glen-L hardware kit for the Mist Miss. It's the best of the ones I have. I was able to find some short Bosch ones, which are black (think drywall screw material), and a longer one which doesn't seem as well made. I'm not sure how long these will last, as normally I go through #2 Phillips-head bits quickly, but those are on generally harder screws.
Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

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acflynn
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Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by acflynn »

Thanks for all the insights, everyone!

So you're saying wax, eh? I remember reading about that when I was doing research before my build. It's interesting how all of that "accumulated book knowledge" goes out the window once you start cutting in the shop. It's only then when you have to reapply those lessons into actual practice. Toilet ring is on my list for the next time I go out to Lowe's/Home Depot. Thanks also to @mickfly, Bill and Bryan for this suggestion, as I don't have ready access to beeswax.

Does no one use cheesecloth any more? (I guess it's generically called that, or "tack cloth". That's what my dad always recommended, but I never liked it much, as it seemed to get clogged too easily).

@neel thompson - I noted the Glen-L Frearson bit in the post above. At right is the Glen-L Frearson bit (just right), then the Bosch bits in the middle (too small), and then the 3-1/2" long bits from an outfit called "Zephyr" on the left (maybe too big?). At the time the Bosch set was around $6, while the Zephyr two-pack was maybe $2.50.
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@Tom and Footer - The problem was that I WAS using steel screws first, and even they were getting stuck/stripped.

@Jimbob - In the Sapele, the drywall screws would (occasionally) snap at the head unless I used an over-sized pre-drill, and then the SB screws weren't really gripping. That and my arms were sore after 60 screws of hard downward pressure in the transom!

@Tom - I'll first try the Shop-Vac, then compressed air. Otherwise I'll give the rubbing alcohol a try prior to encapsulation (after frame assembly). I remember Josh Burks used alcohol prior to encapsulation on his Zip build on YouTube series.

@denbrlr - Lee, here's the set I got on Amazon. The smallest one in the set is for #8 screws, and has worked well thus far. I may only be using that and the next size up. I basically use the same process you mention.
Image
Slowly building a Mist Miss in the Arizona desert

TomB
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Location: Holland, MI

Re: Mist Miss - Desert Build

Post by TomB »

Fuller bits work better. They match the taper of the SB screw. Here's an example. https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/u ... lar+Length

Tom
In the home stretch on a Tahoe 23

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