FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

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Baron
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Location: Easton, PA

FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

Post by Baron »

I'm looking into building a Dory/Skiff (one tho the Hunkys, Vees or Chunkys). In each of them the materials list calls for Mahogany or White Oak for the frames. BUT, I like working with DF or SYP. Having been a tree climber on the west coast earlier in my life I have an especially deep attraction to DF. May I feel free to sub the recommended varieties with DF? If I do so must I increase Its thickness or install double the frames or something? Furthermore When I see any of the above varieties mention a 2x something or another does it mean truly 2" thick to can it be 1.5 like framing lumber measures. In the past on much briefer and smaller boats I bought from Home Depot 2x12x16' DF planks, hand picked for vertical grain and to contain the most heartwood, Then I sorted them out on my table saw until I had perfectly clear vertical grain heartwood fir. Then from there I cut the frames and accutraments needed for the particular application.
I think that some of the dories I've seen in this site appear to be using standard dimensional lumber (1.5") where 2" is called for.
Help

Baron
Last edited by Baron on Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DrBryanJ
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Re: FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

Post by DrBryanJ »

I won't swear to it, but I think DF is acceptable lumber. All lumber dimensions are nominal not true. If Glen meant true size he will say so in plans.
Bryan

Building a malahini "Mona Lisa"

My wife said "If I build a boat, she's getting a divorce."
We're still happily married, but now she just wants "the dam boat out of the garage."

Baron
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Location: Easton, PA

Re: FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

Post by Baron »

I have used allot of species but my favorite is:
Pseudotsuga menziesii!!! I liked climbing them, I liked cutting them and I like woodworking with them. I even like to finish it light and enjoy the natural color. :wink:

Baron
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:33 pm
Location: Easton, PA

Re: FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

Post by Baron »

I hoping to hear from more folks with rough service boats as Doc here is a cool boater from NJ and not a rap’em smack’em from the sand bars or surf. No offense here neighbor but I’ve seen you stuff and if it were mine I’d be afraid to ding it. Nice stuff.
Seriously BRIAN, I’ll check that out and see if maybe Glen May even have left notes about it.

hoodman
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Re: FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

Post by hoodman »

There is a whole chapter in Glen's book Boatbuilding with Plywood on acceptable boatbuilding lumber species. Some of that info may even be on the website. If you don't have the book I'd recommend it. It is a trove of information and will answer most questions. The plans and instructions basically assume that you have read the book or you already know what your doing.

Douglas fir and Longleaf SYP are both listed. Although it seems that most of the tight grained old growth stuff has already been harvested. Does that make it unsuitable? I have no idea. But you will need to be much more selective. As you described buying larger pieces and milling the good stuff out of them.

One thing to note in these boats is that the frames themselves are really only a small part of the ultimate strength of the hull. The plywood itself is where most of the strength comes from (IMO). Especially coupled with modern epoxy construction.

On many of the designs, parts that tended to fail in the past (like the keel) is backed with a lamination of plywood or multiple laminations of solid wood like on the sheets and chines.
Matt

Building a Geronimo......!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25139

TomB
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Re: FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

Post by TomB »

Baron,

Here's a good place to look for advice on lumber. https://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/bb-chap5.html

Tom
In the home stretch on a Tahoe 23

Baron
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:33 pm
Location: Easton, PA

Re: FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

Post by Baron »

All replies have been most helpful. Somewhere around here I have the book (woodman) and will re-visit, I will look to see any missed note from the designer regarding nominal vs dimensional thickness (Brian) and I already read all the notes on lumber choice (TomB). Thanks.
I needed to know the thoughts on subbing a softer wood for rock hard oak and mahogany as well. Thanks again.

TomB
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Re: FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

Post by TomB »

Baron wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:26 am

thoughts on subbing a softer wood for rock hard oak and mahogany
I used rock hard oak for my frames and mahogany (not nearly as hard) for stringers and longitudinals. Everything is sanded and has three coats of epoxy encapsulation. Over the last year, engine install, deck and dash install...countless trips up and down inside the boat, countless things dropped...

A dropped F clamp for example dents the mahogany and breaks the epoxy coating. The F clamp gets dented when it hits the oak :lol: :lol:

Tom
In the home stretch on a Tahoe 23

Baron
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:33 pm
Location: Easton, PA

Re: FRAMING LUMBER: HOW MUCH FLEXIBILITY DO WE HAVE IN OUR CHOICES?

Post by Baron »

TomB, I know the feeling anti is one of the reason that I chose a simpler work type boat. I too rough on equipment.

Well I found my answers, just like DocBryan intimated: "If Glen meant true size he will say so". Seems like I need to remember to read more carefully, see below:

attachment=0]IMG_5266.jpg[/attachment]
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IMG_5266.jpg

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